Friends,
please enjoy my interview with Khalid Muhammad, author of The Agency
Rules:Never An Easy Day at the Office.
Judith Lucci:
Good Morning,
Khalid. Thanks so much for joining us on Author 911. You are
someone I have followed and admired for several years now. Can you tell
me a little about your background?
Khalid Muhammad:
Good morning, Judith.
It’s a pleasure to join you and thank you for the opportunity to discuss global
terrorism with your audience.
My background is a bit
confused for most people. I was born in Pakistan, raised and educated in the
United States. I worked in the US for about 8 years before moving back to
Pakistan to pursue business opportunities in the emerging markets. I’ve been
here since.
Judith Lucci:
You are certainly my
expert for all things Jihad and became so once I read your book. How have
you become such an expert in Jihad behavior?
Khalid Muhammad:
That’s great to hear,
especially with the number of people in the media that pretend to know what
they are talking about when it comes to jihadi behavior. I think more people
like me have to start talking about Islam and jihad to counter the negative and
false perception that is being put out in the media from the uninformed who are
reading websites with little understanding of the history and context of the
verses of the Qu’ran.
My expertise, as you put
it, comes from living in Pakistan and experiencing the “fake jihad” that is
waged in the name of Islam. Many people have been deceived into believing that
Islam is a violent religion, but they have no understanding of the context,
history or traditions during the time of the Prophet Muhammad when they make
that characterization. The Prophet wore many different hats during His life,
including a head of state, a military commander and the founder of a religious
school of thought. When you look at the Qu’ran and Hadiths as being the history
of His life during each of those roles, they whole conversation takes a
different color.
Judith Lucci:
How did you experience
this, particularly being educated in the US?
Khalid Muhammad:
As part of my book
series, I was able to talk to a number of people in the military, government,
religious scholars and former jihadis to get an understanding of the different
points of view. In addition, when you live in a country that has been ravaged
by the pseudo-jihadists with their suicide bombers, car bombs and IEDs, you
gain expertise quite quickly.
It’s quite horrifying to
listen to different imams talk about what jihad means to Islam and Muslims, but
they seem to all forget that the most important jihad is the one that each
Muslim must fight within themselves to become a better person. They seem to all
be focused on the armed conflict, the justifications for such and the
responsibility that we have as Muslims to fight it.
I was blessed to have
both a Saudi and an Egyptian as teachers during my primary years, who taught me
that Islam is not a violent religion and that we, as Muslims, must constantly
be fighting to learn and understand more about our faith to be better Muslims.
They never told me that armed jihad was the primary role or first response to
any injustice.
Judith Lucci:
I know that you are
quite outspoken about jihad and your feelings are quite clear in you excellent
and extradinary book, The Agency Rules. I suppose your writing is a
lynchpin?
Khalid Muhammad:
I believe that it is a
requirement for Muslims that have an understanding of the real teachings to
speak out and counter those who would like to misinterpret our faith. Agency
Rules, my debut spy thriller and series, is the foundation of helping people to
understand how people are deceived into believing that taking up arms is the
only solution to the injustices that people feel.
I tend to be more
outspoken than most because I won’t allow my religion to be misused to lead
people to their death for someone else’s private war, cause or blind arrogance,
which is the case with most of the “jihadi leaders.” They never fight on the
front lines, they hide far away from where the battle is actually happening.
It escapes me how
someone who firmly believes that their primary cause in life is to be a martyr
for their religion takes a cowardly position and sends others to die in their
place.
Judith Lucci:
I know that you believe
that three events are responsible for the Muslim world today. Can you share
them so we can better understand?
Khalid Muhammad:
Definitely. While many
people will try to list many, many more than three, you can boil the core problems
in the Muslim world down to three.
First, we have the
influx of wealthy countries that are using other countries to fight proxy wars
for them. The wealthy countries that I am talking about are Saudi Arabia,
Qatar, Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates, where members of the royal
families and wealthy industrialists are funding terrorism around the world. The
Saudis alone have spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 million to spread
their extremely fundamentalist Wahhabi version of Islam to every corner of the
world, and that is outside what they spend during the wars that they create for
others to fight. Until these countries are brought to book by the international
community, they will continue to spread their brand of Islam around the world
and all of the moderate Muslims will pay for it with their lives and their
respect.
Second, we have the
failed democratic systems in the Middle East. I have always found it
interesting that we have two options in the Muslim countries – we are either
dictatorships supported by Western powers, as long as they are useful, or we
are puppet democracies that are client-states for the international lenders to
push them into conditions that they can never escape from. I say puppet
democracies because we never get the politicians into office that are sincere
to the nation, rather we get the ones that are intent on filling their offshore
bank accounts, enjoying lavish lifestyles and robbing the people of their
country of basic, fundamental services.
What is sad is that the
international lenders and the Western powers know full well what is happening,
but just don’t have the power to force these governments to do anything to stop
it. The mantra of democracy cuts deep on both sides of the equation.
Third, the civilian
judiciary is a farce and is easily corrupted for power, influence or position.
They are also unwilling to sentence the real criminals because their gravy
train would end. We have seen it in Pakistan for decades. Judges who, under the
pressure of a political or religious party, will make decisions that are
untenable under the law. We have politicians that have committed massive levels
of corruption, but they are free and sitting in our Parliament today because
the judiciary is beholden to them for their positions. We have terrorists that
have been freed by the civilian judiciary because of lack of evidence, fear of
reprisals and many other excuses, but it all boils down to them not being able
to dispense justice.
When there is no
justice, the opportunities for civil unrest expand exponentially.
Now, all Muslims
understand that Sharia law is one of the fairest legal systems because it not
only takes the crime, but the reasons for the crime into account. A person who
is unemployed and steals food to feed his family would not be punished for
theft under Sharia law, whereas someone who has wealthy who steals would feel
the full punishment for their crimes. But with numerous sects and schools of
thought residing within the same country, whose interpretation of Sharia law do
you follow? And that is another problem all together.
Judith Lucci:
Are jihad appealing to
young people who are not educated? I read somewhere that people involved
in jihad reated it as a job, with pay raised, vacation, etc. Is that
true?
Khalid Muhammad:
It’s not so much that it
appeals to them, but it is the only route because they don’t have the same
opportunities as others. Let me explain the dynamic so that your readers can
better understand.
There is a family of 6
that earns $10 a day, if they are lucky. From that $10 a day, they must feed
their children, pay their bills, find a place to live, eat, take care of
medical expenses, educate their children and save some money for the future.
Now, take into account that the average school tuition is around $70 per month,
not including books, uniform and all the extra curricular activities, so let’s
round that number up to around $100 per month per child. With 4 children,
that’s $400 in just education with a $300 a month salary, if they are lucky.
Now compare that with
the average middle class Pakistani who is able to get a good job because they
have a decent education, send their children to private schools and provide
opportunities that the poor children will never have. What’s worse is that many
of the poor parents, and sometimes children, will work in these households as
maids and drivers and see the lavishness of the lifestyles and the sheer
wastage where they can’t even afford to put food on the table for their
children.
These are the people
that are sending their children to madrassahs, which are religious schools
where the school takes up the responsibility of feeding, clothing, and
educating the children. I’m not going to say all madrassahs are bad, but so
many of them are.
They will teach children
from a young age that what others do is against the teachings of Islam. From
wearing western clothing to not living a pious life by the standards of the
madrassah imam will all become part of the education that the children get.
They are also fed a steady stream of hatred for other sects and religious
groups because they don’t share the same belief structure as the one being
taught in the madrassah.
And then the jihadi and
extremist groups come looking for recruits. Many of the students are identified
and selected by their own instructors for these groups.
It’s a vicious cycle
that can’t be stopped until we get more controls on the governments to
re-invest into the government schools that have collapsed due to their own
corruption.
Judith Lucci:
You know, Khalid, all of
this must be a cultural shock to you and devasting at the same time. Do
you feel alone or are there others who share your feelings and b eliefs?
Khalid Muhammad:
Of course it’s
devastating to me, and to many other Pakistanis that work hard to try and
change the course of this problem. I started a school in my home district of
Swat, where the Taliban once had control, for underprivileged children where we
not only teach them for free, but we pay them a salary to come to school and
send food to their homes so that they will not be forced into child labor to
help make ends meet.
There is another
organization called The Citizen’s Foundation, which builds schools in these
underprivileged communities and provides free education to children so that
they will have opportunities to improve their lives from what their parents
live with. I think they just had one girl earn a scholarship to Harvard and
another who is going to another university in the US.
There is a hospital
network that has been setup to provide free medical care to this same economic
bracket. Medications are free. Operations are free. Check-ups are free. The
whole hospital operates on donations from domestic and ex-patriate Pakistanis.
These things were
unheard of just a few years ago, so there are people doing things to improve
the situation that jihadi and terrorist groups use to recruit and indoctrinate,
but it’s slow because it’s citizens coming together and not the government.
Judith Lucci:
It is devastating to see
your country so corrupt and spreading hatred. How can it change? If
you had a magic wand, how would you fix things?
Khalid Muhammad:
That would have to be
one serious magic wand to fix all the ills that we have in Pakistan, or any
Muslim country for that matter.
I guess I would start
with removing the existing crop of politicians from the equation and putting
them before a court that could sentence them for their crimes. We have a Prime
Minister currently, that is worth billions of dollars, but only pays $50 in
taxes each year. That’s just not possible without lying, cheating and a little
help from people he has appointed during his 2 previous terms as Prime
Minister. When all the politicians, bureaucrats, judges and generals are forced
to justify their assets and the courts seize what is stolen, the country will
no longer need to take the loans that it requires just to run the day to day
operations. That would be the first wave of my magic wand.
The second thing I would
do is re-think the entire educational system in the country. We need to
re-establish the government school system and make it the best educational
system in the country. I would force everyone in government, from the elected
to the appointed, to enroll their children in the government school system,
rather than allow them to attend private schools. When your own child’s future
is dependent on the quality of the education, things will improve immediately.
Third, I would start a
nation re-education campaign for adults. This would be two pronged. The first
prong would be selective to provide proper vocational training to those adults
who don’t have an interest in education but run general stores, repair shops
and other essential services for the people. The second prong would be a
national education program that would re-teach the basic tenets and principles
of Islam and being a Muslim, without the hate and misinterpretation. This would
change the way people deal with people.
Lastly, I would bring
the masjids under governmental and community control. Today, masjids in
Pakistan are only answerable to the imam that leads them. Compare that to the
Middle Eastern countries, where the Ministry of Religious Affairs appoints
every imam, approved every Friday sermon and has people that monitor that the
masjid is not being used for extremist or terrorist activities. Even though we
have a Ministry for Religious Affairs, they are too busy enjoying the perks
that they get to care one bit about what is happening under their noses. In
many cases, it’s one of the fire-brand mullahs that heads the ministry so how
do you stop the spread of hate?
Judith Lucci:
Can we change our topic
a bit? Tell me a bit about terror groups, how they are formed, how they
are recruited and how funded..
Khalid Muhammad:
There are essentially
three types of terror groups operating in the world today, each one has it’s
own characteristics and objectives, which also determine the methods they use
and where their funding originates from.
First, there is the
jihadi group, which is essentially interested in re-establishing the Khilafat,
whatever that means to them. They are primarily driven by eliminating the
Western, or immoral, influences from Muslim society. These are the ones that
will smash televisions, computers, burn DVD and music shops because, in their
opinion, this is where the immorality comes from. Some of these jihadi groups
are freedom fighters, but the bulk of them are just mercenaries sent in to
fight proxy wars. They are funded in two ways. The most common is through the
deep state organizations, i.e. intelligence services, who provide cover for
their activities. Some are funded heavily by foreign players, which can range
from rival intelligence services to foreign countries looking to achieve a goal
of their own.
The second type of
terror group, and the one most common in today’s environment, is the
politically motivated group. I say politically motivated because while they
will hold on to Islam, or any other religion, as their basis, their goals are
completely related to political objectives. To give you an example, this would
be the Taliban in Pakistan and Afghanistan, ISIS in Iraq and al-Qaeda to a
greater extent. When we talk about politically motivated groups, we are talking
about those who are interested in disrupting the normal affairs of the state to
achieve a political objective. Sometimes that objective will be the
implementation of their version of Sharia law, other times it will be to
dislodge the current government from power. In our case, in the Middle East and
Indian sub-continent, this is the most common group that we see operating. The
fighters are lured with the promise of a strong Islamic state, but in the end,
it’s all a power grab. Their funding comes from foreign countries and wealthy
individuals. With the Pakistani Taliban, better known as the TTP, much like
this parent organization in Afghanistan, the funding comes from Saudi Arabia
and the Gulf states. These countries have an abundance of dormant capital and
are looking to establish themselves as the power players in the region. It’s
also well known that the politically motivated terror groups are funded through
front organization charities that collect money and drop it right into the laps
of these fighters. Their goal is to spread this interpretation of Islam through
the countries where they can take advantage of poor judicial systems, weak
educational institutions and overall corrupt governments. The interesting part
of the equation is that they are funding both the terror groups and mainstream
political parties, if not the state itself, to draw attention away from their
own covert actions.
The third type of terror
group are mercenaries. These are individuals, or organized groups, that travel
the region looking for a war to be involved in. We saw great examples of this
with the Uzbeks and Tajiks that were part of al-Qaeda, then joined the TTP in
Pakistan and finally moved to the Free Syrian Army against the Assad regime. I
would not be surprised to find them part of ISIS today. These are guns for hire
and go wherever they can get the most bang for their services. Again, these
mercenaries are trained and funded by the same countries and individuals that
fund the politically motivated terror groups because they are just looking to
cause chaos and havoc wherever they go. They are not motivated by religion or
political objectives, only money.
Judith Lucci:
You mentioned ISIS, who
is hot topic in the news currently, do you think much of this would have
happened if Sadaam were left in power?
Khalid Muhammad:
I was never a big fan of
Saddam Hussain, nor of any of the lifelong dictators that the Middle East has.
The brutality that Saddam brought to Iraq was inexcusable, but we see the same
with Mubarak in Egypt, and I expect that el-Sissi is no different. These were
all acceptable options to the West for a long time and that is where most of
the Muslim world stumbles on foreign policy. Why is it ok to support a brutal,
ruthless dictator when your mantra is democracy for all? You can search the
internet and find pictures of all of these dictators with US Presidents,
British Prime Ministers and heads of state of any of the developed world. It’s
just a contradiction in terms for most of us.
But coming back to your
question… Would the world have an ISIS today if Saddam had been left in power?
I doubt it. No matter what the Western media would like to print, ISIS is a
creation that emerged because of the failed state that Iraq became. When the
government is no longer in control of large tracks of the country, the military
is weak because all the top generals and commanders are gone and the people
don’t feel secure with the new system that has been introduced, they will look
for another solution for their needs. What we saw happen in Iraq was a
re-creation of a system that was never allowed to take hold or fully form. When
that happens, you are just asking for the worst outcome.
Most of us are expecting
the exact same thing to happen in Afghanistan, to be honest.
Judith Lucci:
Yes, I agree.
Tell me the profile of a
typical suicide bomber.
Khalid Muhammad:
There are two profiles
of the suicide bomber, neither of which is typical.
The religiously
motivated one suicide bomber is who believes that he is fighting God's war and
has been told that he will only be held responsible for the one that he is
there to kill, not the dozens or hundreds of other that die because of his
actions. He is madrassah educated and comes from a poor family that has
regularly been pushed down by those with wealth. Normally, they don’t any other
option for himself other than suicide bombing because there of their limited
education and the hate that they have been taught.
He has been promised
that once he does the deed, his family will receive untold riches, which are
never paid. In most cases, the family won't even receive his body because of
their disgust over what he did.
The second suicide
bomber is the tool that is used in war. While he comes from a similar
background, he doesn't share the same religious fervor. He wants to fight, but
isn't the type to become a martyr. These are typically young children, 12-17,
that have a vest strapped to them and they are sent out. Someone else holds the
trigger and detonates when they are in the right place.
I interviewed some of
the 2nd group for my books. They told me about being injected with heroin and
turned into drug addicts so that they wouldn't know what was being done to
them. They told me stories of sexual abuse. It broke my heart. I don't think I
have ever cried as hard as I did after talking to these kids.
Judith Lucci:
so misguided, according
to my background. It is difficult, an under statement there. Get
out your wand again, the magic one, and tell me what the West needs to do to
help. Then I want to talk about your books.
Khalid Muhammad:
It actually starts with
something very simple, stop funding countries that are corrupt. Yes, I know
that means Pakistan. But when you cut off their lifelines, these corrupt
politicians disappear and we can start building our country right.
The West knows that
Benazir and Nawaz Sharif (and all their cadres) are corrupt. They have never
worked, they own nothing and have millions of dollars in property in Europe and
the US. Why don't they ever demand and accounting of where they money came
from?
When you start to cut
them off, you make it better for us. I'll give you another example... less that
2% of Pakistan's politicians pay any taxes. If they are paying their taxes, why
are you using your taxpayer money to fund them?
The current prime
minister, who is worth over $2 billion, paid $50 in taxes last year.
Second, invest more in
people projects. Rather than funding the government, set up projects through
your own embassies and run them yourselves. Build schools, train teachers,
build hospitals. Do what the government is supposed to do, rather than giving
them the money in the hope that they will do it.
It will decrease the
anti-Americanism in the countries and build more people-to-people goodwill.
Judith Lucci:
yes, these make
sense. Are you considering political office?
Khalid Muhammad:
I am, but probably 5
years from now. Pakistan is currently going through a shift in thinking. Imran
Khan’s protests over the 2013 rigged elections brought the middle class on the
streets for the first time and has scared the sitting government, as well as
the powers that be. The language that was used to describe my fellow citizens
by these crooks sitting in Parliament was disgusting. We were called maids,
mechanics, servants, donkeys and many other colorful terms that were
infuriating to me, and most citizens.
I wasn’t part of the
protests, but no politician should speak that way about their own citizens. The
result is that the nation has now seen what these people actually think of us.
We are fodder to them. We are the people they can abuse to get what they want.
We pay for their lives of luxury.
Second, the army is
seriously taking on the terrorism problem in Pakistan and the politicians are
more interested in protecting themselves and the terrorists because of their
own links to them. Within the next few years, Pakistan will change dramatically
and it will be ready for pro-Pakistan leadership to step forward and help build
the country to where it should be.
With the implementation
of military courts, even though they are being challenged in the Supreme Court
by the religious groups, many of the politicians are running for the hills now.
They know the jig is up with the military courts becoming the definitive forum
for terrorism cases in Pakistan.
Judith Lucci:
Let's talk Agency Rules,
your extraordinary best seller. Tell me about the inspiration
Khalid Muhammad:
The inspiration was to
tell the real story of Pakistan - what we struggle with everyday as Pakistanis,
from the corruption to the dirty mullahs to the black sheep in our military
leadership.
I got tired of listening
to the narrative that was being made about the country in the Western media and
decided that we needed our story told. We have been fighting this problem since
the 70s when the USSR invaded Afghanistan. It just came to a head after 9/11
and the war turned on us, and so did the world.
Judith Lucci:
And you did a stellar
job. How about your need release for the spring...a sequel?
Khalid Muhammad:
Thank you so much. The
next volume in the series is Scorched Earth, and is due out in March, which
will probably anger my readers. With the success of the first book, my editors
are pushing me harder to make the second one much better. They are worried
about the sophomore stumble. The first book, Never an Easy Day at the Office,
brought the reader through the turbulent 90s. This book takes you into 9/11 and
the war that we have been fighting since.
Judith Lucci:
when writers write about
jihad, what is the most common error they make that just drives you nut..
Khalid Muhammad:
They get it wrong.
Totally and completely.
They don't know jihad
because they don't know the religion. Islam teaches that jihad is the first and
foremost priority of every Muslim, but that jihad is the internal struggle to
be a better person, not to kill others.
People have forgotten
that and focus on the bloodshed. The Qu'ran also has specific rules that must
be followed when it comes to an armed jihad, which no one talks about.
I share those with you
later because when you read them you will see that what ISIS and the Taliban
are doing is not jihad, nor is it Islam.
For example, you can't
kill women or children. Period.
Yet, the body counts for
those two groups is outrageously high
Add to that, most of the
commentators on jihad talk about how Muslims haven’t condemned the terrorist
activities enough. Yet, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of Muslim
scholars that have written, spoken and preached about the errors of the
terrorists and how it is not connected to Islam at all. But the Western media
never covers these statements and finds the most radical to talk about Islam
and terrorism.
Judith Lucci:
ISIS and Taliban are
considered rogue for sure
Khalid Muhammad:
Of course! They are
rogue. They are sociopaths. They are mass murderers. But they aren’t Islamic or
Muslim by any means.
There was recently a
report issued that highlighted the top 500 Muslims in the various industries
and government. Inside that document was a 23-page letter written from 100
Muslim scholars disproving every act of terrorism from ISIS and similar
terrorists with the correct verses from the Qu’ran. You can find the letter
at http://themuslim500.com/, but you will need to download the entire guide
to get it.
I do think it’s sad
though. When you look at someone like Anders Breivik, who wrote a 1500 page
manifesto about how Christianity needs to return to the violence of Vlad the
Impaler, the entire mainstream media played it down and screamed that he
couldn’t be a Christian, because no Christian would kill someone in God’s name.
I guess they forget the abortion clinic bombers, the KKK and Lord’s Resistance
Army. But that same standard is not applied across the board to all religions.
One Muslim, who was a recent convert, attacks the Canadian Parliament and the
media can’t stop talking about Islamist terror. Another group of Muslims who
are moving to Afghanistan to join the Taliban ordered “Islam for Dummies” from
Amazon before they left, which was revealed by British intelligence. What
Muslim is reading that book before they join a holy war?
No matter how much the
moderate Muslims talk about how these people are not Muslims, the mainstream
media doesn’t hear us. We can’t talk louder just so those who hate Muslims will
listen, because they won’t listen even if we are on their shows and in their
face.
Khalid Muhammad:
I want to thank you for
taking the time to interview me. There are a great deal of things that the
world doesn’t understand when it comes to these animals and more people need to
talk to the Muslims that they know, rather than listening to the media telling
them things they don’t understand themselves.
People need to
understand that there are millions of Muslims that are peace-loving, integrated
into their communities and reject the actions of the terrorists who claim to be
acting in the name of our religion.
That’s not us. Those are
psychopaths looking for media glorification and they get it each time the media
focuses on them for attacking and killing innocent people. There needs to be a
change in the language used to talk about these animals. You aren’t going to
find support and assistance to fight a war against people in our midst, until
you stop counting us as the enemy. No one will step forward to help when we are
all considered the enemy.
